Discuss General Game development(No programming required)

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wizardofid
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Discuss General Game development(No programming required)

Post by wizardofid »

I'm starting this topic for any one wanting to get into game development....um...er why cause I'm sick and tired of playing some one else's games and of course you will be learning some thing.

Great how does one start well I learnt the hard way. So here are some tip's to help you and it isn't all that hard once you get started.

1. Try and try and try again without a tutorial doesn't matter how good you are your not going to get far.Most software apps your going to need (which I'll explain later) has little to none support for that matter.

2.Your going to spend a lot of hours working on simple things like animation(sounds complicated)So get use to spending at least 4 to 8 hours working on the next best thing since animated sliced bread.

3.Get to know your "apps" very important if you want your game to be perfect or work at all for that matter.

4.Study tutorial X and follow it step by step(don't skip parts which you may think is easy which it isn't.. :lol: )

5.Before you start making games put pen to paper and draw a outline of what you want in your game what is it going to be about is it going to have movies will it have multiplayer support how many levels.

6.try and try again


7.try and try again I'm going to stress this many times more.Start small build a simple level and make sure it works perfect before moving on to bigger things.



Great now what do I need...time which all of us have little of.
Your going to need quite a lot of software which do little things all for the big picture.

1.A compiled working 3d engine there are alot of engine's one can find on the net for free mostly open source.(I'm using the morfit engine and Genesis3D engine's.

2.Milkshape 3d like program for creating object's like tea cups to a coffee tables.

3.Visual basic 6 and up( You don't have to have it it's just to give your game that special touch.

4.C+ and C++ compiler(Still don't need to know programming it's just for some tutorials and should you need to compile source code.
(Any compiler will do)

5.Plugins for your 3D engine mostly on same website for creating your levels.

6.Bmp pics and a lot of them.

7.Corel Bryce level creation very expensive but you still don't need it to make great games.

8.A BMP to .map converter.

9.To make it easy for your self at first don't create every thing your self most of your basic needs can be downloaded for the net like objects /cars/ skins/ players.
Last edited by wizardofid on 29 Jan 2007, 19:21, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by wizardofid »

:D
Last edited by wizardofid on 03 Jun 2006, 05:39, edited 1 time in total.
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RuadRauFlessa
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Nice Wiz verry nice indeed

You by any chance interested in doing somehting together with me and Kronos


We got a lot of planning already.

Even got Ideas for the next versions.
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Post by OnlyOneKenobi »

Hehe good to see you two are still working on the game project Ruad, just let us know if you need any help, that thread died a horrible death and was never revived.

Anyway I'm still working on that adventure game thing but the project is a bit big for one person to complete within a decent timeframe, I've downloaded some other engines - mainly 2D ones for sidescrollers and fighting games so I'm going to play around with those as well and build up some experience, along the way I'll also be working on the adventure game but it'll probably be a year at least before it's finished.
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

I dloaded those 3D engies he mentioned and I think that will save us alot of time since we were going to create our own
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Post by Y0da »

I'd love to see a decent game coming out of this country and maybe soon we will ayh? :) I also like to create my own stuff but sadly I am no artist. I have played around with some cool tools though and the best I have come across so far (in my opinion) is 3D Gamestudio. Especially the A6 engine. You can use C Script for the AI and other scripts or standard C++ / Delphi. It's very expensive for the proffessional version (USD 899) but you can do soooo much with it. Let me know if you need some help with scripting or coding, maybe I can make a contribution in that way. Oh yes, the link...

http://www.3dgamestudio.com/
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Thanks Yoda
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Post by NinjaTic »

Very interesting guys! Good luck wizardofid! :wink:
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Post by wizardofid »

Well I'm busy uploading my stuff and should be avaible this evening.
Well RuadRauFlessa PM me...We need all the help I can get... :lol: But let me know if you need any help..!!

See you guys later Damn upload 3 hours left GRRRRRR...!!!
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Post by wizardofid »

Y0da wrote:I'd love to see a decent game coming out of this country and maybe soon we will ayh? :) I also like to create my own stuff but sadly I am no artist. I have played around with some cool tools though and the best I have come across so far (in my opinion) is 3D Gamestudio. Especially the A6 engine. You can use C Script for the AI and other scripts or standard C++ / Delphi. It's very expensive for the proffessional version (USD 899) but you can do soooo much with it. Let me know if you need some help with scripting or coding, maybe I can make a contribution in that way. Oh yes, the link...

http://www.3dgamestudio.com/
The A6 engine is great been using it for awhile now but have you ever tried the coral bryce 4 plugin...??
Well try this I'm busy right now exporting halflife 1 skeletons(gordon freeman skins) to Milkshape 3d to import into the A6 engine with RTCW objects.

YODA you don't need to be a artist import and exporting objects from net is a lot easier....try it. http://www.milkshape3d.com
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Post by wizardofid »

Now that the ice has been broken/melted/vapourized.Lets talk about the project I'm working on.

I'm working on a first person shooter/adventure game.I have allmost completed the demo and half way with the first and second cutscene's...Since I'm working with fairly advanced 3d engine the requirements is quite high which is a down side I wanted a game that every one could play.

It takes about 2 weeks to do a rough build level to test The final build takes up to 2 to 3 months for a compelted working level.

I've taken into consideration of what games are out at the moment and have build the game based on that.

Things that I've done so far.

Is not to include a "developers/cheat" menu.However I've added some thing else a total wait and see.

Weapons: With the help of milkshape3d I imported halflife 1/counterstrike and some new weapons a total of 20 weapons.

Project will only be done with in the next 3 years the demo will take another 3 months to complete.

However since I don't have a lot of time on my hands and if your willing to help me you can PM me and I'll submit all details of what I need.

Thanks
Till later
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Post by AngryRabbit »

Very interesting thread guys. I was wondering though, how is it possible to create a game without doing any programming? (Especially a 3D shooter). How have you approached damage, weight, AI, etc? How much of the game is already built into the engine?

What do you use the VB6 for? I was under the impression that VB was terrible language for game programming.
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Newsflash your most precious Half-Life was completely developed using VB.

Yes it is an awful language but it also has it's advantages
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Post by AngryRabbit »

I don't believe that for one second Raud. I'm not saying you are blatantly lying, but you must have your information wrong.

If you can find some proof of that statment I will be extremely supprised and will apologise. In the programming book I'm currently reading, the author explains that VB code becomes very unstable when the code gets a little long - Hardly suitable for an entire game.

PM me if you find any evidence supporting your claim. :wink:
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

I heard that from another forum a while back so noooo profe sorry. But if you really think about what you have just said you would reconcider. Games when you think about it isn't one big program. It is rather a bunch of little programs interacting and working together to form a whole. This leads to the speed of the games and a fiew other things that makes it easy for development.

Most graphics engines are state machines that only has 600-1200 lines of code on the max. This makes it actually faster than a real time dependant renderer cuz it runs on it's own and does not have to wait for something else to complete something before it can do what it needs to. It is thus a complete system on it's own that is passed scripts/commands that it interperates in it's own good time.

Then again while the graph engine is doing it's thing the AI is calculating the bot's next move and then sets a couple of variables in the graph state engine again. But through all this the graph engine gas nott for a single moment stopped rendering.

So coming to this conclusion that even though VB programs become verry unstable when they are big is irrelevant to the game scene cuz your prog needs to be at least 5000 lines long before VB hits the sack. VB is however verry slow and that is why when HL came out we all suffered due to the immense ammounts of resources that it wants to use.

So taking all of these facts into account I would conclude by means of logical deduction that it is indeed possible that hl was in fact written using VB.
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Post by Snail »

Im with Angry on this one. VB6 is terrible in comparison with other higher
level languages. Yes it has it's benefits for quick easy to use construction of programs but NO!!!!! it was no used for Half-Life. Certain fragments yes, but the whole game in general NO.

Proof is at Valve... go check it out.

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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Thans for the correction but my point still stands on the fact that VB could be a suitable lang for game dev. But again it depends on how you design the game.
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Post by Snail »

From my experience with VB6, it's great for those small quick apps that you want to develop as well as smaller lower end games.

Constructing bigger, larger interfaced games will definitely require some elite skills, if you are using VB.

So in the end...... i do see it possible to create gr8 games in vb, but i just don't see it being feasible.
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Post by Y0da »

RuadRauFlessa wrote:Thans for the correction but my point still stands on the fact that VB could be a suitable lang for game dev. But again it depends on how you design the game.
Sorry to be the one to tell you this Ruad but VB on its own is not suitable for game dev. The reason for this is quite simple. You can't really use multi-threading with VB. If you think about it, top notch games would use quite a bit of multi-threading to do various tasks simultaneously.

That said, VB can be used to write certain of your interfaces and stuff which is what Valve more than likely did with HL. I'm not saying it is impossible to write a complete 3d game in VB, but personally I would rather go for something a little bit more powerfull.

One thing to remember though is, that if you use tools like 3d Dev Studio which has a VB SDK you are not really developing a game in VB. What you have is a engine that basically consists of some dll's with fuctions that you can call. This engine is most certainly compiled with C++ or similar. You just code the interface, AI, event sequences etc. with VB. Just like you can use C script with 3d GameStudio to code the various parts of you game.

Good luck.
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Post by Snail »

Well said Master YODA :wink:

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Post by wizardofid »

RuadRauFlessa wrote:I heard that from another forum a while back so noooo profe sorry. But if you really think about what you have just said you would reconcider. Games when you think about it isn't one big program. It is rather a bunch of little programs interacting and working together to form a whole. This leads to the speed of the games and a fiew other things that makes it easy for development.

Most graphics engines are state machines that only has 600-1200 lines of code on the max. This makes it actually faster than a real time dependant renderer cuz it runs on it's own and does not have to wait for something else to complete something before it can do what it needs to. It is thus a complete system on it's own that is passed scripts/commands that it interperates in it's own good time.

Then again while the graph engine is doing it's thing the AI is calculating the bot's next move and then sets a couple of variables in the graph state engine again. But through all this the graph engine gas nott for a single moment stopped rendering.

So coming to this conclusion that even though VB programs become verry unstable when they are big is irrelevant to the game scene cuz your prog needs to be at least 5000 lines long before VB hits the sack. VB is however verry slow and that is why when HL came out we all suffered due to the immense ammounts of resources that it wants to use.

So taking all of these facts into account I would conclude by means of logical deduction that it is indeed possible that hl was in fact written using VB.
VB6 is infact very useful to an extend.However A whole game based on VB...well um er er you must really like microsoft..?? :x
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Post by wizardofid »

You can't compare vb to say pascal or C+ to darkbasic each programing lang was made with needs and purposes.

C+, C++ , pascal, darkbasic....ect.Was not build just for that program or that 3d/2d engine...ect pascal didn't have a great graph interface....but it didn't stop it from creating a 3d graph program it just wasn't it's strong point same with any other programing lang each.....some might have better support for 3d programing...it didn't however stop that lang for creating other interfaces/menu's/graphics...ect.

So to make every one understand don't blame a lang if it can't do what you want it to do exp. you can't expect windows to run 100% perfectly in a linux enviroment if it runs at all...... it does have support but it's not windows main purpose.

So now you say your limited in what you can do....
Then have a look at what that limitations can do for you to help you make a better program.

Ppl only see the bad in a program/flaws/lack suport/ blah blah blah blah it's human nature.....But next time have a look at why that program was created and the history behind it..!!

So keep this in mind... "Don't look at what it can't do and have a look at what it can do."
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Good poind wiz. I got in touch with an old buddy of mine that does VB programming and he assured me that it is possible to create multi threaded apps in VB. + I have actually done it but I just wanted another opinion by someone that relly knows what they are doing in VB.

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Post by AngryRabbit »

AngryRabbit wrote:Very interesting thread guys. I was wondering though, how is it possible to create a game without doing any programming? (Especially a 3D shooter). How have you approached damage, weight, AI, etc? How much of the game is already built into the engine?
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Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Angry sorry for pushing your blood pressure up by making you wait a while. But hey such is life.

Anways these engines are complete game engines all you have to do is add the graphics that has to be rendered and describe the characters/levels and stuff to the engine in a way that it can understand
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